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Garden Gate:  mysterious problem with my grape vines  |
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LuckyMommyof4
True Blue Farmgirl
408 Posts
Suzanne
Lyndhurst
OH
USA
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 Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 5:37:05 PM
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Hi Farmgirls,
I have something odd happening with my grape vines and wondered if anyone had any thoughts or advice.
We grow Reliance grapes near the back of pour yard and they have been healthy and problem free until this year. They started out the Spring well and suddenly in the last two weeks I noticed a large amount of leaves seem to be inexplicably drying up and falling off. The vine plants are properly watered, fertilized, pruned, etc, so I have no idea what is happening. There are no signs of any kind of insect infestation I can see and I don't see any fungus.
Anyone ever had this happen?
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
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oldbittyhen
True Blue Farmgirl
1168 Posts
tina
quartz hill
ca
USA
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Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 7:30:54 PM
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you might have a rodent down under ground chewing the roots, that would explain the problem you are having...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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Wauka Mountain Mama
True Blue Farmgirl
239 Posts
Fran
Fairburn
Ga
USA
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Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 8:03:06 PM
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Are the leafs curling up? Could be leaf curlers...or thrip, spider mites, blight. A Google images check on each one would show you a pic that might be semilar to what you have happening.
Live simply. So that others may simply live.
http://waukamountainmama.blogspot.com/ |
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LuckyMommyof4
True Blue Farmgirl
408 Posts
Suzanne
Lyndhurst
OH
USA
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Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 07:15:21 AM
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Thanks for the good suggestion, Fran. I Googled all those things and the pictures don't look like what is happening on my vines (and I really was hoping it was one of those things you helpfully pointed out, because then I could have planned a fix for it). Tina - maybe you are right that it is some sort of rodent underground chewing up the roots? I checked around for critter holes and couldn't locate any near it, but obviously they could have tunneled from a distance.
It's so baffling - it looks like the plant is simply drying up, even though I know it is being properly watered and fertilized.
My only other thought is that we grow these vines along a stretch of our back fence (with trellises to support them) and our back neighbor recently got two new dogs who seem to spend all day, every day "marking their territory." Do you think they could be doing this through the fence on my grapes when I don't see it and this could cause the problem? The vines aren't right up on our fence, but I'm sure a dog could "mark" something from a fair distance.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
Edited by - LuckyMommyof4 on Jun 11 2012 07:17:39 AM |
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oldbittyhen
True Blue Farmgirl
1168 Posts
tina
quartz hill
ca
USA
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Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 07:36:33 AM
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the dogs urine if its a constant, several times a day hitting the vines could do damage, but you would smell it, if it was that strong, my vote is rodents...also one other thought, is there a chance that your neighbor has sprayed any kind of herbicide???
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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Melina
True Blue Farmgirl
395 Posts
Melina
USA
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Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 08:05:06 AM
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Take several leaves to your county extension agent. He/she should be able to help.
The morning breeze has secrets to tell you. Do not go back to sleep.
Rumi |
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rough start farmgirl
True Blue Farmgirl
2154 Posts
marianne
medical lake
WA
USA
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Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 03:36:31 AM
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Gosh Suzanne, I don't have any other guesses than what has already been offered. I feel horrible for you. It is so sad to have established plants fail all of a sudden. Hope it is just one season that they suffer!
Marianne |
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LuckyMommyof4
True Blue Farmgirl
408 Posts
Suzanne
Lyndhurst
OH
USA
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Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 05:15:24 AM
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Thank you everyone for being so supportive and helpful.
Tina - I think you are right, I would certainly smell the dog urine by the vines if it had been heavy enough to damage them. I checked again yesterday and I didn't smell it, so I can probably rule that out.
The problem has become so bad I think the vines are near dead. It's so heartbreaking because before this year they have been healthy and thriving. I examined them again VERY closely and still can see no overt signs of any sort of insect infestation or fungus. I really don't know what to make of it.
There was one thing - while I was out there I remembered that last year I had an arborvitae tree up and die on me along the same fence line about 10 feet away from where my grapevines are. It was kind of a similar case - the tree was about 4 years old and had been healthy and thriving, and at the start of summer it looked like it just dried up and died, even though it was watered, fertilized and mulched. I dug it out, tilled the area and planted a new one in it's place and that tree is fine (so are the three other arborvitae next to it in the opposite direction). I wonder if there is some sort of rodent issue back there attacking or undermining some of the root systems?
Or maybe the neighbor is spraying some herbicide in his yard that crosses into my yard at this common point?
So frustrating. Regardless, I think my vines are not long for this world. I'm so sad about it!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
3794 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
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Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 07:50:55 AM
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Could it be a form of blight, Suzanne?
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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LuckyMommyof4
True Blue Farmgirl
408 Posts
Suzanne
Lyndhurst
OH
USA
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Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 08:12:04 AM
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It could be, Nini, but it's like nothing I've ever seen before. Except, of course, for what happened with that arborvitae in the same vicinity last year.
I hadn't thought about that arborvitae until I started talking about the grape vines, but it was almost identical. One day it was emerald green and healthy and within a week it was about a third dried up and not 3 weeks later it was completely dead. And I new it was getting proper care.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
3794 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 3:13:20 PM
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Suzanne, I just posted to Krystle because she and I are having the same problem with our beans. When I went out to the garden this morning, I found a whole bunch of little tiny flying/hopping green bugs falling from the bean leaves as I plucked away the diseased material. They are little tiny green grasshopper-looking bugs: bright green, about a quarter inch long, if that, and they hop AND they fly. Upon doing a little research, I learned that they are called leaf hoppers and actually may be the cause of the bean issue... BUT I also learned that they attack grape vines, too! I don't know for sure, but I thought I should share this information with you since it could also be what you're experiencing. I wasn't able to call the local extension to find out what I need to do, but I will and will also relay the information to you. Hang tight - hopefully SOMEONE will have the answer to help all of us! :) Hugs - Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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LuckyMommyof4
True Blue Farmgirl
408 Posts
Suzanne
Lyndhurst
OH
USA
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 6:53:51 PM
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Oh my goodness, Nini, I think you are right! When I read your post I practically screamed. About a month before this started happening with my grapevines, I noticed a swarm of smallish superfast green, hopping/flying insects at the base of one of my maple trees about 15-20 feet away from my vines. I'd never seen anything like them, but there was something detrimental looking about them that made me uneasy. My husband didn't recognize what they were, and I asked a few neighbors who had no ideas either. I got out a completely organic-approved insecticide/repellent and sprayed the area twice a day for a week. After a week, I didn't see them anymore and thought the problem was solved. Now I think they just moved on to my grapevines. Funny thing is, I didn't SEE them on the vines - although they could have swarmed, damaged the plant severely and moved on before I caught it. I must say the thought of them lurking in swarms on the property has me terrified of what they will go after next. I have been researching organic fixes for them since I read your post, but haven't yet found anything consistently definitive. If I do, I'll post. If you find anything, let me know.
And, your poor beans Nini and Krystle! I feel for you both - so heartbreaking to lose plants.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
3794 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
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Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 8:34:45 PM
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Oh,wow Suzanne! That's something, isn't it?! Scarey! Do you recall the name of the organic insecticide you used, and where you bought it? I've been doing an all-organic garden and really would like to keep it that way. I'm with you - I'm a little terrified of where they will go next, too. I guess when your garden is good, the bugs will love it, too. We have tons of birds flocking in and out - I just wish they would eat this little buggers so I wouldn't have to worry! UGH! Well, I'll definitely let you know what I find out - definitely! :) Thanks so much! - Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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Ninibini
True Blue Farmgirl
3794 Posts
Nini
Pennsylvania
USA
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Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 07:57:26 AM
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Okay... here's what the Master Gardener said: First check online to see if the pictures match what I'm seeing, because they do sound like potato leaf hoppers. He asked if I live in the country, because they love alfalfa, and usually when local farmers cut down alfalfa, that's when they move into smaller gardens. I actually live in the city, but we're not too far from a BIG local farm owned by my girlfriend's family. I don't believe they "do" alfalfa, though. He said that they don't show any organic solutions for the leaf hopper, but he recommended I visit Agway and pick up some pyrethrum product or Seven. He said to use spray because if you apply powder who knows where it ends up, plus you really don't want to be breathing it in. So I mentioned that I had used Seven a couple of years ago for a different problem, and it worked, BUT my garden is organic and when I did use it, I noticed it really "hardened" or changed the plants (i.e., lettuce was no longer tender and flavorful, it became rather rigid/hard and tasteless). He asked if I had done research online, which I had (and, like you Suzanne, I found that there is really nothing definitive). I asked him about using Neem oil. He said that he knows that it is approved for organic gardening, and that it might work. We could try that first and then if it doesn't work, move onto the Seven spray. He said that I can get neem at Agway or even probably find it at the "big box" stores... SO, I'm going to head out today, buy some Neem oil spray and give it a try. I know there is some sort of Bio-Neem product out there online (more safe? more organic, perhaps?), but I really don't want to wait on and order due to processing and shipping time, you know? I'll let you know what happens... Good luck! - Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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LuckyMommyof4
True Blue Farmgirl
408 Posts
Suzanne
Lyndhurst
OH
USA
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Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 10:39:02 AM
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Nini - the spray I used that seemed to at least drive them away from my maple is called EcoSmart Organic Garden Insect Killer and I bought it from Home Depot. I had to soak the area twice a day for a week. I've used it in my veggie garden before for a pest problem, but only once a day in the evening after full sun was over and heat down (so as not to damage plants). Still searching on line ...
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
Edited by - LuckyMommyof4 on Jun 14 2012 10:50:37 AM |
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oldbittyhen
True Blue Farmgirl
1168 Posts
tina
quartz hill
ca
USA
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Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 11:34:11 AM
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dishsoap diluted in water , sprayed on the plants will suffacate them, aphids and many other kinds of insects...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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Garden Gate: mysterious problem with my grape vines |
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mysterious problem with my grape vines
