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Sandra K. Licher
True Blue Farmgirl

1106 Posts

Sandra
Horseshoe Bend Arkansas
1106 Posts

Posted - May 19 2009 :  4:54:07 PM  Show Profile
I had some email problems so have been offline but I started with this thread from the beginning and REALLY missed not keeping up but I'm back. I just wanted to let you all know my experience that I have been able to make the sourdough bread, slice it and put it in a Lock'n'Lock container, put it in the fridge and it has been good for a month! I live alone and kept expecting mold on the bread especially since there were no preservatives in it but lo and behold! I actually made another loaf and forgot I had some in there and when I found it I thought I would have to throw it out but NADA....it was STILL fine.....Amazing!!!! Still not getting a big rise after all this time but I am using a bread pan...not MJ's suggested cast iron pot.

Sam in AR..... "It's a great life if you don't weaken!"
Farmgirl Sister #226

www.farmgirlsam.blogspot.com
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl

4813 Posts

Julie
Russell AR
USA
4813 Posts

Posted - May 19 2009 :  5:16:30 PM  Show Profile
Sam thanks for your tip. I think most of us are having issues with mold on the starter. Any ideas for that?

Farmgirl Sister #17
Blog
www.willowtreecreek.wordpress.com
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Mamarude
True Blue Farmgirl

107 Posts

Anna
Durango Colorado
USA
107 Posts

Posted - May 19 2009 :  8:39:39 PM  Show Profile
I started my "mother" yesterday, day two and she smells a little vinegary and has a little crust. We'll see how this works, but I love the idea of a natural yeast bread, I typically use Artisan bread in 5 min. a day, I like that I can keep it in the fridge and pull it out whenever I want a loaf. If the sourdough works out, I hope I can make it with my local wheat, from a farm just a few miles away. Anyone incorporated freshly ground wheat?

Cherian
Durango Farmgirl
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Quintessential Kate
True Blue Farmgirl

175 Posts

Kate
Tyler TX
USA
175 Posts

Posted - May 20 2009 :  05:19:29 AM  Show Profile
The "funny" thing about my "Ma" is that throughout the whole time I had her I did not ONE TIME have ANY mold. She was always what I considered "perfect". Really no 'hooch'....I believe because I was very consistent with her feedings, using only organic flour and purified water. The night before the mold she seemed great....she was hungry, and a while later I looked at her she was bubbling away. Then the next night.........eeeeeeeeeewwwwww, MOLD.
Our house is very old, and when we did the "re-do" we put in all new duct work and a heavy duty Lennox 18 SEER with an air purifier. (In fact, when I started "Ma" I shut the purifier off for a couple of weeks so the little yeasties would be abundant. I can somewhat control the humidity......and try to keep it at a comfortable level.
I am at a loss as to what happened.......
When I reconstitute my dried concoction, I think I will start a completely new batch at the same time. But as I said in my earlier post......right now I'm pretty busy with my yard, garden and a very precocious 3 year old, so it will be a while. I might start it again in about September.....and have a nice "ripe" batch to share at the holidays.
Ciao,
Kate

Heart of Texas
Chapter
AKA: Hot Farmgirl #234
http://quintessentialkate.blogspot.com

Today is my best day!
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Farmers Daughter
True Blue Farmgirl

90 Posts

DiAnn

90 Posts

Posted - May 20 2009 :  06:57:35 AM  Show Profile
When you put your sour dough in the freezer~ is it better to keep it in a glass freezer jar or just plastic? And how much do you put in?
Would you feed her then put her in or would you put her away hungry. That would seem kind of mean not to give her a good meal before freezing her.

I too am running into a time problem with all the extra outside work. But do want to also have a back up just in case the mold problem start like it seems is happening to several.
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Sandra K. Licher
True Blue Farmgirl

1106 Posts

Sandra
Horseshoe Bend Arkansas
1106 Posts

Posted - May 20 2009 :  07:05:07 AM  Show Profile
So far I have not had any mold problem at all and I started mine maybe 6 months ago? I always use a wet towel over her that I wet using purified/filtered water from my Brita pitcher, I change her bowl and towel once a week and use Mj's organic flour nad of course a clean wooden spoon. I have chipped off the dried pieces from the bowls when I change her bowl and put them in the freezer in a plastic freezer container "just in case". It has not gotten hot and humid here yet so we'll see what happens then. I have my backup though in case she goes moldy on me. BTW....her name is Lizzie....I named her after my real, original birth Mother. I thought that was only fitting.

Sam in AR..... "It's a great life if you don't weaken!"
Farmgirl Sister #226

www.farmgirlsam.blogspot.com
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JudyBlueEyes
True Blue Farmgirl

657 Posts

Judith
Spokane Washington
USA
657 Posts

Posted - May 20 2009 :  11:11:39 AM  Show Profile
Question about fresh organic flour: Since MJ particularly calls for organic flour for the mother and the bread, does anyone in the SPOKANE area know where I can get it? I looked at Fresh Abundance yesterday and didn't see any. I wonder about using something from Bob's Mills, as it might be old and have lost some of it's goodness? Thanks for your help...Judy...oh, it looks like Sandra mentions MJ's organic flour...maybe I better go shopping on this website!

We come from the earth, we go back to the earth, and in between, we garden!
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl

4813 Posts

Julie
Russell AR
USA
4813 Posts

Posted - May 20 2009 :  12:43:40 PM  Show Profile
Here is a link to purchase the MJ flour. It is only available online.
http://shopping.maryjanesfarm.org/s.nl/it.A/id.1891/.f


Farmgirl Sister #17
Blog
www.willowtreecreek.wordpress.com
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Deb H
Farmgirl in Training

46 Posts

Deb
Glendale Missouri
USA
46 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  12:11:39 PM  Show Profile
Well, when I tried to make my bread over the weekend (yes, it's now Thursday; I'm a little behind), it didn't rise. I left it in the cast iron dutch oven and put it in my oven (turned off) to keep it out of the drafts of having my windows open because it was beautiful here and it didn't even rise a little bit. So it went into the garbage and I will have to give it another go. I had thought I may have "drowned" it and now I'm assuming that's exactly what happened.

"Well-behaved women rarely make history" - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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Amie C.
True Blue Farmgirl

2099 Posts


Finger Lakes Region NY
2099 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  12:30:08 PM  Show Profile
I'm one of the people who experienced the "everything's fine and then suddenly moldy as soon as the weather turns hot and humid" syndrome.

I've mostly been using my sourdough for biscuits and pancakes. I found that I'm not such a fan of the sourdough bread taste, I prefer ordinary whole wheat.

Recipes for biscuits and pancakes don't require so much of a rise as a true loaf of bread. That and the distinctive sourdough taste, which is also muted in these kind of foods, are the two big reasons why you need to let your mother develop over weeks and months.

So my new plan is to start making a fresh batch of sourdough starter every week. I'll just use it up every Saturday, wash out the container, and start over. Technically, you can use a sourdough starter after 2-5 days. I'll try this through the summer and see how well it works. At least, if mold develops, I won't have lost something that I've got a lot of time invested in.
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Daisyfleabane
Farmgirl at Heart

3 Posts

Claudia
Howard PA
USA
3 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  1:35:11 PM  Show Profile
I have been happily tinkering with this process since I first read the article. I like mine better kneaded (I like kneading -- its meditative for me), and sometimes add a pinch of flour to get the dough to a kneadable, very slightly sticky stage. Mine is rising better these days, perhaps because it is warmer, or the mother is mature, or because the kneading helps develop more gluten for the rise? I tend toward a mother that is about half whole wheat and half white. Admittedly, I have been baking home-made breads for years, so the kneading, etc is second nature, but I'd never made home-made from scratch sourdough. Now I can't imagine going back to puffy breads, but love the wholesome, real taste of these! I bake mine in a Pampered Chef stoneware bread pan with excellent results.

Here are some variations I've enjoyed so far, using the original basic instructions:

Dried Cherry - Pecan
2 c. starter
1-3/4 c flour
¾ t salt
1 t honey
1 T flax meal
½ c chopped toasted pecans (or hazelnuts)
1/2 c dried cherries (mine from WalMart are big so I snip them in half)

Lavender-Lemon (or Orange)
2 c. starter
1 c white flour
¾ c oats
¾ t salt
1 T honey
1-2 T lavender
2 T lemon (or orange) zest or ½ c chopped nuts

Lemon-Rosemary
2 c. starter
1-3/4 c flour
¾ t salt
1 t honey
1 T chopped dry rosemary
1-2 T lemon zest

Multigrain and Seed
2 c. starter
1-3/4 c total mixed grains flours (I use whole wheat and rolled oats)
1 T caraway seed
1 T sesame seed
1 T poppy seed
1 T sunflower seeds
1 T millet
1 T flax seed meal
¾ t salt
1 t honey

Nut
2 c. starter
1-3/4 c flour
¾ t salt
1 t honey
1 T flax meal
½ c chopped toasted nuts (walnuts, pecans, sunflower seeds, hazelnuts)

Raisin-Rosemary
2 c. starter
1-3/4 c flour
¾ t salt
1 t honey
1 T chopped dry rosemary
¾ c raisins
1 T flax meal

Olive-Rosemary
2 c. starter
1-3/4 c flour
¾ t salt
1 t honey
1 T chopped dry rosemary
½ c chopped black olives
1 T flax meal

Potato-Rye
2 c. starter
¾ c rye flour
1 c whole wheat flour
¾ t salt
1 T molasses
1 T toasted onion chips
1 T dry dill
1 T flax meal
2 small potatoes, grated

Happy baking all!


centrally isolated Pennsylvania
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GailMN
True Blue Farmgirl

222 Posts

Gail
Hutchinson Minnesota
USA
222 Posts

Posted - May 21 2009 :  2:21:37 PM  Show Profile  Send GailMN a Yahoo! Message
Claudia - thank you so much for all the recipes - I will be baking the multigrain tomorrow, and the others over the coming weeks. I have been baking on Fridays, because 3 very good friends have begun the habit of "stopping by" for coffee and the sourdough offering of the week on Saturday mornings. I have offered to share my mother, but I think they like the present arrangement. Actually I do too - a couple of our mornings have gone into lunch with a bottle of wine. Thank you again.

Gail


Farmgirl Sister #506
A Smile a Day . . .
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Sandra K. Licher
True Blue Farmgirl

1106 Posts

Sandra
Horseshoe Bend Arkansas
1106 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  09:16:03 AM  Show Profile
Well.....I was getting all set to try some of Cladia's great recipes and when I took the plate and towel off of "Lizzie".....guess what? The black mold had attacked and I had to throw her out.....after 6 months. I'm thinking maybe you gals out West don't have the humidity issues we do here in the South? Julie (Willowcreek) have you had any problem yet since it's gotten warm here or not? Maybe it's just my luck or lack of it? I was shocked and actually when I "pitched" it seemed the stuff underneath might have been okay but obviously this is going to be a problem in the humidity and I have my windows open all the time as I haven't used much a.c. yet. Maybe that's why I've never heard anything about Arkansas sourdough or Southern sourdough?

Sam in AR..... "It's a great life if you don't weaken!"
Farmgirl Sister #226

www.farmgirlsam.blogspot.com
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gramadinah
True Blue Farmgirl

3455 Posts

Diana
Orofino ID
USA
3455 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  10:06:35 AM  Show Profile
I keep my mother in the Fridge, I take her out get her to room temp feed her use her and put her back in the fridge. I have found a great bread but I do use yeast see page 89 picture on 88 of this thread.



Farmgirl Sister #273
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl

4813 Posts

Julie
Russell AR
USA
4813 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  10:25:13 AM  Show Profile
Diana - Do you feed your starter every day and do you bake with it every week?

Other people have suggested storing in the fridge but there are a few issues I forsee as problematic.

1. To bring it to room temp, feed it and allow it to "work" for a bit before you put it back in the fridge takes so much time it is nearly OUT all day.

2. If you dont feed daily it doesnt perform as well (in my opinion) with just a single weekly feeding and use.

3. The fridge is FULL of yucky mold and bacteria (I only throughly clean mine about once every 6 months) where as my kitchen is kept VERY clean. If you leave the starter uncovered - it collects these yuckies, if you cover the starter it diminishies its ability to work even more.

I have not suggested anyone refridgerate their staters because I have not had a good experience with it and also because MaryJane suggests against it. I would however be interested in your answers to the above questions Diana.

Farmgirl Sister #17
Blog
www.willowtreecreek.wordpress.com
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gramadinah
True Blue Farmgirl

3455 Posts

Diana
Orofino ID
USA
3455 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  3:39:02 PM  Show Profile
1.No I usually use it withen 3 hours. Stir it feed it and use it in the bread that I like. But I always feed it with warm water and bread flour. I get the flavor and all the raise I need but I do use yeast too.


2.I find that when I feed when I use it is all it needs I am not after a real sour taste.I try to keep at least 1 1/2 to 2cups of starter in the fridge. It is in a plastic tupperwear pitcher with the lid slightly tiped on it so it gets air.

3 My fridge is brand new so It isn't to awful bad. My MIL kept her starter in the fridge and used it I think about once or twice a year for pancakes. She kept it in a mason jar with the lid on tight and never had a problem. She would pull it out the night before and feed and let it proof and the pancakes were the best.

So hope this gives you a new idea.

Diana




Farmgirl Sister #273

Edited by - gramadinah on May 22 2009 3:41:11 PM
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Sandra K. Licher
True Blue Farmgirl

1106 Posts

Sandra
Horseshoe Bend Arkansas
1106 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  4:56:04 PM  Show Profile
Thanks Diana! I'm going to try that since I live alone and really there's more starter than I need plus I go away once in awhile. I froze some from "Lizzie" so maybe I'll try again. Years ago I did starter from scratch and it wasn't a daily thing and I think...if I can remember..that I did the same thing. I remember keeping it in the frig and using as needed and not having to feed daily or use weekly so I think I will try that and I don't remember ever having a mold problem. The only time it was "out" of the frig was when first starting and that was cheesecloth over a mason jar on the picnic table outside until it got "started" then it was always in the frig until you were ready to use it...it's all coming back to me now! Thanks!

Sam in AR..... "It's a great life if you don't weaken!"
Farmgirl Sister #226

www.farmgirlsam.blogspot.com
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl

1891 Posts

Ronna
Fernley NV
USA
1891 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  5:09:23 PM  Show Profile
I'm not Diana, but she does have my starter. If it's put into a tupperware or other tightly sealed container while in the fridge, there's no chance of being contaminated. I've been doing it for years and those on this list and otherwise who have my starter don't have any problems with it. A new starter needs to be established, so would likely be better (for those of you where humidity is an issue) to start one in the cold months. Many don't bake much in the summer heat anyway, so storing in the fridge will allow you to have starter when it's needed and kept safe when not.
Just my 2 cents worth from over 50 years of baking bread and nearly that many with sourdough.
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Sandra K. Licher
True Blue Farmgirl

1106 Posts

Sandra
Horseshoe Bend Arkansas
1106 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  5:23:02 PM  Show Profile
Ronna! Good to hear from you! YOU need to write a book! Thank you!

Sam in AR..... "It's a great life if you don't weaken!"
Farmgirl Sister #226

www.farmgirlsam.blogspot.com
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl

4813 Posts

Julie
Russell AR
USA
4813 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  8:14:49 PM  Show Profile
Diana and Ronna

I guess I am just confused about how to use it if stored in the fridge. You only feed it once a week? How much?

Also I thought the whole idea was to bake with a hungry starter so you would get a rise. If you are feeding it and then baking within three hours how does this work?

I am SO curious about this because clearly leaving the starter on the counter isnt going to work well in this hot and humid south! Give us your knowledge girls!!! ;)

Farmgirl Sister #17
Blog
www.willowtreecreek.wordpress.com
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Ronna
True Blue Farmgirl

1891 Posts

Ronna
Fernley NV
USA
1891 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  8:42:00 PM  Show Profile
When I'm going to use the starter, I take it out of the fridge and let it warm up about an hour. I stir in the hooch, simply cause I like the extra tang. Then I feed it equal amounts of warm water and flour and within an hour or less, it's bubbling away. I use what is needed-if I use a lot, I feed it again before it goes back in hibernation. If I don't use much, it just goes back in until I want to use it again. I've left it for months without feeding and it comes right back to life just fine. I tend to keep about 3-4 cups, so feed it a cup of flour and same of warm water. Nothing is set in stone and it's so forgiving of neglect and less than precise feeding or the amounts fed.
Re: baking with a hungry starter so you get a rise...let's see if this makes sense to you. If it's been fed, as I do, when more flour and liquid are added per the recipe, it will feed on that too. As soon as it's gobbled up the food (flour), it will be ready to "eat" again. Same as if you were feeding several times a day to increase the amount for a big baking, sharing or whatever. When I send my starter, I prefer to do it "wet". I feed it, maybe a bit extra flour to thicken a bit more than the usual pancake batter consistency. An hour or so later, I double ziploc it and send it on the way. The recipient should feed it when it arrives, which can be a couple days or a couple weeks (if going to England, Australia, etc).
There are so many variables with starter, as with so many other recipes/methods/etc. How thick or thin it is is up the person using it and their preference. When I make pizza dough, I add a cup or so to a 4+ cups of flour recipe. Straight from the fridge, as I do use yeast and don't need the rise, just like the flavor. I mix it in the food processor, let it sit a half hour or so, put it in a large tupperware to allow room for rising and in the fridge. It's called 'retarding' the dough, a long slow cool rise to develop flavor. I do it either in the morning or the night before I plan to make pizza.
Happy Baking...I'm willing to help as I can, but do not want to step on toes or confuse anyone trying to follow MaryJane's recipes exactly.
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MaryJane
Queen Bee

12892 Posts

MaryJane
Moscow Idaho
USA
12892 Posts

Posted - May 22 2009 :  9:27:25 PM  Show Profile
Because storing it in the refrigerator doesn't slow down your mother's metabolism entirely, an airtight container can be problematic. And unless your refrigerator is cleaner than mine and without strong smelling foods, I wouldn't want her getting her air in there.

For the sake of experimentation, I've been putting mine in and out of the freezer just as routinely as some methods say they use a refrigerator. When I get her out, she thaws QUICKLY, more quickly than I would have thought, like within an hour or two and I'm back in business. (I have a round glass baking dish that has a tight fitting plastic lid that I've been using. Large and flat means the mother thaws quickly. Mine is 9 inches in diameter.) As soon as she is thawed or even somewhat thawed, I add a quick turn of flour and water just to encourage her to get going again.

I have never, ever had mold but I live in a drier climate than say, Alabama.

I have offered my own flour for sale because it's the only way I can think of to eliminate some of your problems. I don't get mold, hooch, or lumps. If you get lumps, try adding your flour using a sifter. Maybe that will help.

Summer has finally come to my farm!!!! Tonight we have several of our units full of B&B guests. I love thinking of them all tucked away in their cozy tents. And last week, our very first honeymoon couple that came five years ago (we've had 14 couples so far), scheduled a farm stayover to celebrate their fifth wedding anniversary. We all agreed, they're getting some extra special pampering when they arrive. We have a new in-house breakfast chef this year and tomorrow he's making strata.

I did play around with a pretzel recipe that WillowTreeCreek has been working on. We feel like we need to try that one a few more times, tweaking it as we go. I hope we can get that on here for you soon.

Well, it's time for me to go tuck my chickens in...or rather the critters out!
Happy bread making,
Sour Jane


P.S. And for the health reasons that I talked about in my magazine when I first wrote about "Bread the MaryJane Way," I avoid the use of factory-concocted yeast when I bake bread. I prefer TRUE sourdough bread and not "flavored" sourdough bread. Although the flavor is great, we need our mothers to rise up! Hence, refrigerator/yeasted bread isn't what I've been trying to share here. I'd like to see women perfect making/baking the bread our great-grandmothers made or those hardy cooks in the logging camps at the turn of the century or my father-in-law's mother who fed him sourdough flapjacks and then made him a sourdough lunch that he packed on his horse when he left from here every day to ride his HORSE 7 miles one way to high school! That's what I'm trying to bring back and share. And I love it that many of you have done it/got it right/are doing it!!!

MaryJane, Farmgirl #1 Plowin' Thru ~ giving aprons a good wrap for 45 years and counting ~
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willowtreecreek
True Blue Farmgirl

4813 Posts

Julie
Russell AR
USA
4813 Posts

Posted - May 23 2009 :  08:33:52 AM  Show Profile
thanks MaryJane! I would be scared to store my starter in my fridge. I can handle the freezer though! She is in there now because my last few weeks have been CRAZY! I'm gonna pull her out and give your method a try!

I've also thought about keeping it in a clean cooler with a few reusable ice packs that I can change out daily. I might split my starter and try both methods to see how they compare. We are in for a hot and humid week so I will report back!

Farmgirl Sister #17
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www.willowtreecreek.wordpress.com
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lupinelady99
True Blue Farmgirl

113 Posts

Lisa
Massena New York
USA
113 Posts

Posted - May 23 2009 :  7:55:55 PM  Show Profile  Send lupinelady99 an ICQ Message  Click to see lupinelady99's MSN Messenger address
I've been trying something new to deal with my lack of time for the kitchen but my my love of the sourdough. Been busy in the garden and with the weather it was getting a skin on it all the time. A couple weeks ago I moved a small amount maybe between 1/2 & 1/4 cup of starter into the fridge in a sealed container. When I open the fridge and remember I open the container to release any pent up gasses and then replace the cover and shake it. Then once a week I take it out and feed it. Then let it bubble on the broadshelf for a couple hours uncovered before returning it to the fridge. I make sure the container is super sized compared to the amount in it (approximately 2 quart sized). It is yielding 1 baking every 2 weeks at this pace. This is a great balance for me! I get the best of both worlds. Great bread but not having to devote so much daily care to keeping mother alive during the hot months.

http://www.myspace.com/lupinelady99
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lupinelady99
True Blue Farmgirl

113 Posts

Lisa
Massena New York
USA
113 Posts

Posted - May 23 2009 :  8:23:19 PM  Show Profile  Send lupinelady99 an ICQ Message  Click to see lupinelady99's MSN Messenger address
I just saw MJ's last post and I'm sorry that my refrigerator method wasn't what she had in mind, but as 1 person trying to run a household, gardens, life, etc. it just gets to a point where you can't cut out anymore sleep from the day. The health benefits of the method are wonderful and it is enjoyable to do. I guess what some of us are seeking is sustainable balance in our lives. We are trying to live and eat better one small step at a time. Sometimes you have to choose. It amazes me to see how much we each do in our lives within each 24 hour day! Goodness knows our forerunners lived amazingly full lives too (I've got an account of the life of my kids' great great grandmother's life during the civil war).

I have found a similar discussion in the gardening world between the organic versus non camps. Many feel strongly for one side or the other and remain very rigid in dogma. However, there are an emerging group of people trying to make better choices. While they can't jump into the organic life overnight, they are making positive steps. I've read many accounts where people get discouraged when people berate them for not going through the total change right away and they feel discouraged. In my opinion, everytime each of us makes even one smarter, more holistic, healthier choice it is a collective improvement to our world.

So, the fact that so many are choosing to keep the starter going during the harder summer months is a great step forward to healthy living. Any slice of bread from our own kitchen rather than a factory is a glorious slice! MaryJane, I love you and your spirit. You are trying hard to share your good living and history with all of us, but don't get discouraged with those of us that lag behind a little from time to time. If you get to the promised land before us, save us a seat and a slice of fresh bread!

http://www.myspace.com/lupinelady99
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