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idsweetie72
True Blue Farmgirl

129 Posts

Sandra
New Meadows idaho
USA
129 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2009 :  11:32:23 AM  Show Profile
I agree with Grace- I had given my doe her CDT, not kowing she was 2 weeks away from kidding, (new doe for me)- Doe had a horrible time with labor and I lost the baby.

Mazy Day Farm
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl

1238 Posts

Jami
Ellensburg WA
USA
1238 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2009 :  12:01:20 PM  Show Profile
Glad you found the thread Rae.

Well, I don't know anything about goats so here's my ideas on CDT and sheep. If you decide to use CDT, here's what we do...

We give our ewes their yearly booster shots 10-12 weeks before the they are due. According to my sheep vet, this gives the ewes the chance to build up the proper antibody load to benefit the lambs via mother's milk and will cover the lambs until almost weaning age. Colostrum begins filling their udders weeks before lambing so it's important the proper antibody load is in it. Then we don't give the CDT shots to the lambs until they are about 12 weeks old and then a booster at 15 weeks old. We band the tails a 2-3 days old and still don't use tetanus toxoid and we've never lost a lamb from those illnesses.

Grace, you are one prepared farmgirl...glad you're ready for anything and hope you don't get too much! Better safe than sorry.

We are busy lambing now and the jugs are full of lambs and mamas. About 1/3 of the way through. The weather has been hard to deal with because it's so unpredictable. Yesterday we had 50 mph winds, hail, sunshine, calm and then a cold frosty night with a shift in the wind that blew right into my lambing shelter. Sometimes I head out the door in the middle of the night with curse words the first thing out of my mouth....good thing no one is listening...yeah, I know God is listening but he knows I cuss already.

Jami in WA

Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl

2804 Posts

grace
larkspur colorado
USA
2804 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2009 :  5:57:04 PM  Show Profile
Jami, that is the same process I used when I raised sheep and before I became organic.

It is still a white out here and I am due to get the gear on and out the shop door soon. I am with you - God knows that I only say those words when they really fit and if he did not want those things to tumble out he would cut me just a little slack with this weather.
I know lame but with lack of sleep it is the best I've got.

Good luck with the rest of lambing - I remember those days - O.K. back into the gear and back out side....

Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio

Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl

925 Posts

Sarita
Battle Creek Michigan
USA
925 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2009 :  6:16:23 PM  Show Profile
Grace, I am watching the weather and thinking about you. Please take care. Do you have to go very far to your barns? Years ago, we had a rope that we tyed to us and other end to a post on the porch because of blizzard conditions. They are giving us snow on Saturday...hope it is just a melting trace!
I also just raise sheep and I do like Jami as far as the CDT. When I first got into sheep, I purchased 5 lambs from a lady and I lost 4 lambs in nothing flat. The vet said they had over-eater's stomach and they would be fine and in 4 hours dying. It was heart breaking. So I do give the CDT yearly to the ewes and at 12 weeks to the lambs.
One of my black corriedale ewes is up and down, pawling the ground and looks like she is going to pop...but of course Aliza will wait until the snow is blowing so I can go from house to barn a dozen times.
Good luck with lambing to everyone! Grace be careful and don't take too many chances.

Sarita
The Spinning C Fiber Farm OB Nurse

www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com

Contentment is the crown jewel of a happy life.
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl

11303 Posts

kristin
chickamauga ga
USA
11303 Posts

Posted - Mar 26 2009 :  6:16:29 PM  Show Profile
Oh Grace, I hope this doesn't last long and your power doesn't go out.

I think I might have miscalculated on the goats due dates. They may just have 3-4 weeks. I checked them all real good awhile ago and they are so big. Some have very full udders. The one doe that miscarried last year is huge today. And the 2 that I thought may not be pregnant probably are. Their udders are filling up, too. So it may be sooner than I thought. I need to hurry up and get the milk room cleaned up.

So ya'll think they will be ok without the CDT shots? I am probably too late anyway now. If I don't give it to the does I might just give the kids shots at a few weeks old then.

Does anyone give tetanus shots to kids before they dehorn them? Or any other kind of shots?

Kris

Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. Maori proverb
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Old Spirit
True Blue Farmgirl

1492 Posts

Rae
MN
1492 Posts

Posted - Mar 27 2009 :  03:05:01 AM  Show Profile
What is CDT and what is it for?
The rookie
Rae

...those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles:...
Isaiah 40:31
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl

11303 Posts

kristin
chickamauga ga
USA
11303 Posts

Posted - Mar 27 2009 :  11:49:47 AM  Show Profile
Rae, it is a combination of Clostridium, Perfringins, Type C&D- Tetanus Toxoid. I need to know more about it, too. Hopefully someone will jump in here that is more knowledgable about this. I know it protects against overeating in the kids. And for when they are dehorned, the tetanus is good for that. I think it protects against coccidiosis, too? Or is it coccidia? I am not good with diseases yet.

Kris

Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. Maori proverb
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl

1238 Posts

Jami
Ellensburg WA
USA
1238 Posts

Posted - Mar 27 2009 :  11:51:17 AM  Show Profile
It's basically a tetanus vaccine and an overeating vaccine but here's some technical talk on it:

CDT is: Clostridium perfringens Types C & D Tetani Bacterin-Toxoid
Vaccine for use in healthy cattle, sheep and goats as an aid in the prevention of entertoxemia caused by Clostridium perfringens types C & D and Clostridium tetani (tetanus).

What it is: Overeating disease also known as "Enterotoxemia" or "pulpy kidney" disease. It is a highly significant and costly disease in the sheep industry. This disease is a major killer of lambs from shortly after birth throughout the entire feeding period. Proper preventative practices are strongly recommended to sheep producers to avoid loss of sheep to this disease. Such practices would include proper feeding, management, and immunization.

Jami in WA

Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com
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Old Spirit
True Blue Farmgirl

1492 Posts

Rae
MN
1492 Posts

Posted - Mar 28 2009 :  10:01:20 AM  Show Profile
I just can't believe how much I am learning from this, THANK YOU ALL. What books do you use most for reference? I will need to get some to have on hand.
Grace, how are you with weather and all???
Rae

...those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles:...
Isaiah 40:31
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl

2804 Posts

grace
larkspur colorado
USA
2804 Posts

Posted - Mar 28 2009 :  12:54:44 PM  Show Profile
Hi All - I am still digging out and my arms feel like wet noodles. I had to dig out the chick coop - three feet worth of snow just to open the door. They where glad to see me!!

I am still not completely done with the goat girls barn door, made a little path to get the door open some - I had to put two of those expecting girls in a pen because they have milk bags and stopped eating. Still not a kid in sight.....

I tried to get down the driveway but the snow is up to my thighs so I will be letting Mother Nature do some of the work - Oh, they are saying another snow storm on Monday.....

I promise I will get to the book shelves and give you some names, just doing catch up on emails - hope the arms and back will be ready for that shovel this afternoon.

Stay safe and I will be back with book titles.

Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio

Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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kristin sherrill
True Blue Farmgirl

11303 Posts

kristin
chickamauga ga
USA
11303 Posts

Posted - Mar 28 2009 :  1:58:30 PM  Show Profile
I don't know what's worse, snow or mud. At least snow is pretty firm. I am up past my ankles in mud here. I am so sick of slippin'and slidin' in mud. I don't think it will ever dry out here.

I hope the ole back and arms hold out for ya, Grace. Sounds like you have a busy week ahead of you. I an so sorry you're having all this bad weather there. All I can say is I am glad I'm here.

Stay safe and warm. Let us know about the babies if they come soon.

Kris

Life is what you make it. Always has been. Always will be.
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Old Spirit
True Blue Farmgirl

1492 Posts

Rae
MN
1492 Posts

Posted - Mar 29 2009 :  6:14:04 PM  Show Profile
Grace
Hope you are doing ok there. We are in for 6 to 8 inches they say on Tuesday but things can change. I am hoping they change to none but then that isn't really MN weather :-).
Looking forward to hearing about the books when you have time.
Rae

...those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles:...
Isaiah 40:31
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl

1238 Posts

Jami
Ellensburg WA
USA
1238 Posts

Posted - Mar 31 2009 :  08:04:03 AM  Show Profile
Do you ever wonder how sheep and goats have survived this long in the spring weather over the centuries? It's amazing when you think about it. Takes a lot of intervention and work in the colder climates. We have had it all, high winds, cold, hail, snow, now raining....I'm getting a bit grumpy and told DH we oughta move outta here or stop lambing in it.

Anyhow, brighter note, got 39 lambs so far, about 8 ewes to go I think. Looks like a few are about ready so I gotta get out and clean out jugs and throw some into the blending pen as jugs are all full.

Have fun girls and may all your lambs and kids be vigorous.

Jami in WA

Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com
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Old Spirit
True Blue Farmgirl

1492 Posts

Rae
MN
1492 Posts

Posted - Apr 01 2009 :  08:44:21 AM  Show Profile
Grace have you dug out?? We got about 10 inches of snow yesterday. 5 during day and a lovely surprise this morning of another 5, the wet sticky stuff. Hoping roads will be plowed by the time I have to go home after work ;-( So much for my fence party, HA!!! Told my kids we are having a fence party in a couple weeks, I thought it sounded more fun than just can you come help fence.
Rae

...those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles:...
Isaiah 40:31
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl

1008 Posts

Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts

Posted - Apr 01 2009 :  08:56:53 AM  Show Profile
WOW Jami, that's a lot of lambs. Don't think I could handle that many. I only breed 5 ewes every year, and usually only THREE lamb. This year I had the same ewe deliver prematurely AGAIN. This is the third time. I DO have two daughters out of her, but I've decided to sell her as a PET. I can't stand to lose babies like that. Since she's a Babydoll, it won't be hard to find a good home for her.

Another ewe may go as well, since she's only ever had lambs ONCE. I guess it was to prove a point I had been wondering about--- and, in case any of you are wondering-- "Yes, two BLACK sheep CAN have WHITE babies!!!!" (blew the whole -- recessive gene vs. dominant gene thing out the window!! And she had white TWINS to prove it) She hasn't had a single lamb since-- and she's a BEAST. The hardest of my ewes to work with. Don't think I'll really miss her much either..... but I still find her a GOOD home.

Have fun with all those lambies Jami. I'm looking forward to my own little woolies soon. They'll fit in quite nicely with the 19+ goat kids I DIDN'T breed for this year... (LOL!!!!) Gotta love THOSE times huh? ~~~Hugs~~~ Tracy

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin
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Keeper of the Past
True Blue Farmgirl

925 Posts

Sarita
Battle Creek Michigan
USA
925 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2009 :  8:56:51 PM  Show Profile
Got home this afternoon and found one of my ewes...one that I didn't have shut up, have her on the calendar for next week, had a set of twin ewes. Mom is a polypay and dad is a border leister. They are really sweet. Well, on with the story, as I get her and babies in a pen, 2 more of the ewes act like they are ready to lamb so I penned them and by 8 PM, they had each had a single lamb apiece. One of the ewes was a shetland and she had to have some help with her delivery, both had big boys. One of my big black corriedale ewes had a white borderdale...he has the big ears and looks like the flying nun. The little shetland cross border leister has wool in ringlets! 3 down, 29 more to go. And I give the Good Lord praise!
I ordered lavender from Terri in Washington and she says she sent it out today, so I will be making little muslin bags for the lavender and washing wool and packaging some to go out. My tack room is piled to the ceiling with wool.
I have Spring break next week...I think I will be very busy lambing and washing wool! I will try to get some pictures up on my blog of the new babies next week. Oh, and the weather is suppose to get down in the teens next week with rain and snow.
Who needs to ask if my life revolves around sheep and wool?
Keep on smiling! Sarita in cold Missouri

www.coffmanspinningcfarm.blogspot.com

Contentment is the crown jewel of a happy life.
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl

1238 Posts

Jami
Ellensburg WA
USA
1238 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  07:40:49 AM  Show Profile
Way to go, Sarita! We have 47 lambs so far and 3 ewes to go. Gotta love those ringlets! I have a couple of Coops with little ringlets and unfortunately the one ewe lamb that looks so nice for wool has inverted eyelids so cannot be kept to use for breeding. I am not sure what is going on this year but I've never had as many inverted eyelids as this year! I have had maybe 2 cases in the last 5 years that we needed to treat and this year I've had 5 already. Same ewes....same rams...go figure! They cannot stay in the gene pool however.

Jami in WA

Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl

2804 Posts

grace
larkspur colorado
USA
2804 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  10:35:46 AM  Show Profile
Well, Sarita sounds like you had your hands full. Hope the weather calms down for you (we are expecting another big one tonight into tomorrow) and the little one's sound amazing.

Jami what a dissapointing turn of events with the eyelid issue. I had one ram born with that it he was culled. That was when I sold meat sheep. I had followed that blood line for five generations before purchasing his mother - never a sign but luckly that was the only one and she stayed here for six years and never threw another.
She was sold to another farm and was killed by their farm dog the following year so I never got to track if that ever appeared again. Sould be interested to know more and if any more show up. I still take great interests in sheep and pass on information to those in need.

Can't wait to hear more about the lamby kins... I am also starting my hunt for wool for the shop so let me know what you have - off forum if you do not mind. Thanks

Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio

Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Old Spirit
True Blue Farmgirl

1492 Posts

Rae
MN
1492 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  10:48:15 AM  Show Profile
Grace
Did you have a chance to look at books about your sheep to give me some ideas? I got one Storeys Sheep Barn or something like that and it is really good, has pictures showing how to do things.
This snow stuff is getting old isn't it, we got 10 inches this week :-(
Rae

...those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles:...
Isaiah 40:31
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shepherdgirl
True Blue Farmgirl

1008 Posts

Tracy
California
USA
1008 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  11:02:06 AM  Show Profile
How frustrating Jami!!! Those genetic "issues" are not fun to deal with. Especially when it's so hard to pinpoint the source. I've never had the "inverted eyelid" issue, though I know Jacob sheep (which I have) are prone to the problem. I read somewhere that it's more likely to crop up when you breed two Four horns together. Hmm... not a worry. Mine are all SINGLE horned! so far...

I've had an issue with "Inguinal Hernias" in the rams of one Babydoll line. I got to the bottom of it YEARS ago, pulled the ewe responsible for it from the breeding pool (the ram had nothing to do with it-- in fact, I bred her to THREE different ones with the SAME results, so I KNEW it was HER passing it along), and I thought I was done with it. No such thing. It has reared its UGLY head yet again.

This time an OLDER ram (6yrs) in that line (he's been a PET, not a breeder!), and her only daughter has aborted her lamb yet AGAIN. I have decided to cull ALL the sheep from that line. The last remaining ram will likely be butchered, and the younger ewe and one of her daughters will be sold as PETS ONLY. I have not decided yet about the OTHER daughter. As to the old Maven who started it all-- she's my buddy. I just LOVE her and she will stay with me until it's time for her to graze that great green pasture in the sky...... Thankfully, my other line doesn't seem to have any problems. I pray that it STAYS that way!

Good luck with the rest of the lambing ladies! ~~~Tracy


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away. ~~ George Carlin
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl

1238 Posts

Jami
Ellensburg WA
USA
1238 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  11:58:38 AM  Show Profile
Well, that's why I'm a bit confused on the eyelid thing...I am breeding the same rams and ewes to each other that I have in the past and no issues before, so why now? I also had 2 purebred Texel ewe lambs with silver dollar sized single black spots on their chests...now where in the heck did that come from? Texels are white, polled, clean faced and legged sheep. I've had spots on crossbreds but never my pures.

I culled my ewe flock heavily last year and am going to do so again this year. Grace, have you heard that eyelid issues are related to mineral imbalance or nutrition issues at all? I've always read it's genetic but I'm looking at other reasons for this year. Our ewes are a tad bit over-fed this year (large lambs and long labors for some of the girls) and I wondered about that.

Jami in WA



Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl

2804 Posts

grace
larkspur colorado
USA
2804 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  12:45:11 PM  Show Profile
Jami, I went thru my books and found a couple of things - Entropion is genetic. Not all lambs with turn eyelids are genetic entropion. Commonly, lambs with genetic entropion have an extra amount of loose skin of the eyellid and are predisposed to developing the problem.

There are other non-genetic causes that may result in turned in lashes. Long lashes are a ver real cause. Also, lambs born with long lashes are more inclined toward the birthing process and drying process. Exposure to drying agents such as heat lamps, hair dryers, etc. Even towel useage when cleaning off the lamb could cause this issue. Other issues can be wearing show hoods, riding in crowded trailers or trucks, wind and dust and irritations to the eyes from allergies and seeds in hay. So I guess unless I knew for sure it is genetic entropion I would not feel all is lost.

My book also states black faced sheep are more likely to get this then others. They do state if it is the genetic form then breeding is not recommended. However, for those with small herds for fleece you can casterate the male for fiber and keep the ewe from breeding if her fleece is wonderful. But I understand you are also in the meat side of the business.

I know that since my goats have such long lashes we watch closely because I have seen them turn a lid when pollen is high and once we had hay from a new source and we had swollen eyes everywhere including me.

Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio

Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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grace gerber
True Blue Farmgirl

2804 Posts

grace
larkspur colorado
USA
2804 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  1:01:54 PM  Show Profile
Hi Rae

I am so sorry - I completely forgot. I had pulled the books and then worked hard outside and came in and could not remember why I had the books out - gray cells failed me again.

Here they are, my top fav's and worth the price.
Managing your Ewe by Laura Lawson (the working shepard's bible)
Lamb Problems by Laura Lawson (if you are going to ever have babies)
These books are great and cover everything - great in an emergency because you track a symptom and they give you all the possibilities, treatments and it is a life savor when you are in a panic. It stays in the barn at all times. Mine is very worn and stained - got me thru the first four years and tons of tears too.

Next is when you are really into the industry
Sheep and Goat Science by Ensminger and Parker Animal Agriculture Series)
This is the be all and end all of books, almost like a text book. Tons of info from history of the animals, houseing, feeding, breeding,genetic issues, behavior and environment,marketing, slaughter and much, much more.....

Next is if you are thinking of colored sheep
Colored Sheep and Wool, Exploring Their Beauty and Function: The Proceedings of The World Conogress on Coloured Sheep, USA 1989
I was so lucky to get this one because it is my bible on colored sheep. Everything is covered and then some including the fiber industry side. You will learn so much from this book your head will hurt.

Then the two I have sold for years at shows
In Sheep's Clothing a Handspinner's Guide to Wool. Covers every breed known to man and what their fiber should be. This help's in fiber selection even for those who will never own a sheep.

Turning Wooll into a Cottage Industry by Paula Simmons
This is if you every wish to make a dime from fiber or spend a dime to purchase fiber. It really is the building block for starting into the fiber industry.

Then to start you on your way to alternative ways to manage animals
Substitutes Tips and Tidbits, Home Remedies Used in the Raising of Sheep by Laura Lawson

Herbal Recipes for Farm Animals, Chemical Free Alternatives by Diana L Manseau

There is many other books but that is the start of what I recommend to those who visit my operations.

Again, sorry for the delay. My brain seems to be mush some days..

Grace Gerber
Larkspur Funny Farm and Fiber Art Studio

Where the spirits are high and the fiber is deep
http://www.larkspurfunnyfarm.etsy.com
http://larkspurfunnyfarm.blogspot.com
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Jami
True Blue Farmgirl

1238 Posts

Jami
Ellensburg WA
USA
1238 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  3:50:20 PM  Show Profile
Thanks for the research Grace. You know, this year we got really crummy straw. It's not moldy and was put up at the right time but somehow it's "chopped" or threshed or something with lots of little bits and pieces all through it and it's been sticking to the lambs when still wet and the little slivers are just like real slivers! I have been toweling them off a lot to help get this off of them. I am wondering if this is part of our eyelid deal this year. Also, it's been very cold and windy and we've been using the heat lamp although I haven't had to bring a lamb in to warm up with the hair dryer yet. So, those might be a few things.

We just pulled a 16 pound ram lamb out of a ewe....he was so fat and large that he scraped off a piece of skin on his mothers bone on the way out--have never seen that one before! I had to call DH home from work to help me get him out...I didn't have the strength! Holy guacamole! Two more ewes to go and one is looking suspicious.

Jami in WA

Jami in WA

Farmgirl Sister #266
http://woolyinwashington.wordpress.com/
http://farmhouseflair.etsy.com
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Old Spirit
True Blue Farmgirl

1492 Posts

Rae
MN
1492 Posts

Posted - Apr 03 2009 :  4:22:48 PM  Show Profile
Thank you Grace for the info. Imagine you are busy with snow and snow like we have. Sure is getting old, I want to get my fence up so the sheep can be here and I can start doing "sheep things"!
I will be back again I know with more questions.
Oh on Romney sheep can a father mate with a daughter?
Rae, the rookie

...those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles:...
Isaiah 40:31
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